{"id":6594,"date":"2025-01-02T19:08:58","date_gmt":"2025-01-02T19:08:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/?p=6594"},"modified":"2025-01-02T19:08:58","modified_gmt":"2025-01-02T19:08:58","slug":"6594-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/?p=6594","title":{"rendered":"RECENT: Interview with John Robb \u2013 Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"postmetadata\"><\/div>\n<section class=\"entry\"><a href=\"https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-134042 size-large\" src=\"https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg?w=829&amp;h=497\" sizes=\"(max-width: 639px) 100vw, 639px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg?w=639 639w, https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg?w=150 150w, https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg?w=300 300w, https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg?w=768 768w, https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg 890w\" alt=\"\" data-attachment-id=\"134042\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/2023\/03\/23\/interview-with-john-robb-part-1\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg\" data-orig-size=\"890,534\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"unnamed-11-e1673610725339\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-medium-file=\"https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg?w=300\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/nomoreworkhorse.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.jpg?w=829\" \/><\/a><strong>Interview with John Robb \u2013 Part 1<br \/>\nby Killian Laher<br \/>\n<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>No More Workhorse interviewed John Robb, of the Membranes and the\u00a0Louderthanwar\u00a0website about his latest book,\u00a0The Art of Darkness \u2013 The History Of Goth<br \/>\n<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Were you in fact a goth?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>John Robb:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, well I\u2019m not a \u2018joiner\u2019. That\u2019s the thing for anybody who came out of that punk rock generation. You weren\u2019t punk, you weren\u2019t postpunk, you weren\u2019t goth, but you liked all the stuff. The themes of it would totally chime with me. When I was 12 or 13, I was a glam rock kid then. I like punk, I like post-punk and Goth, but the darker stuff has always been very attractive. The thing is, in 79\/80 that scene wasn\u2019t even called Goth anyway. It was called alternative music. It was a bit after punk that didn\u2019t really have a name because I don\u2019t think even at that time people called it post-punk either. These are retrospective terms. So, like all the bands, nobody would call themselves a goth. I suppose the answer is yes and no!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Why did none of the bands ever admit to being \u2018goth\u2019?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think because they formed before it was called Goth because it was a retrospective term for a scene that was already there. They didn\u2019t form as goth bands. The Sisters of Mercy formed because Andrew Eldritch was really into the Psychedelic Furs. They formed as a band that was sparked by punk but didn\u2019t really want to be a straight punk band. They were bringing in what he would see as 70s rock influences. But because he\u2019s using a drum machine, they didn\u2019t sound 70s at all. They sounded very modern at that time. If they said they were a goth band, it would look like to them that there was a goth scene and they thought, \u201clet\u2019s form a goth band to get into this scene\u201d. Which is not what any of those bands were thinking. All those bands were sparked by the energy of punk, but they weren\u2019t punk bands. They were trying to do their own vision. It made sense to people who were into darker stuff and post punk, which was what we shorthand term as Goth.<\/p>\n<p>I think with all kind of musical terms, there were always complications because once you were lumped into a scene, people expect you to obey all the rules, which were obviously stuck on afterwards. You can see why no band wants that at all. But at the same time, it\u2019s a shorthand term for a scene and we all know what it means. The bands are always at great pains to point out they\u2019re not in that scene. But for everyone else, it\u2019s just a quick shorthand way of describing something that took me a quarter million words in the book to describe! People haven\u2019t got all day to describe what they\u2019re into, so we say punk or Goth or mod. It kind of narrows it down a little bit.<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"embed-youtube\"><iframe title=\"Siouxsie And The Banshees - Spellbound (Official Music Video)\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/TjvvK-Rj0WI?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-ratio=\"0.5621230398069964\" data-width=\"829\" data-height=\"466\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>That\u2019s right. I don\u2019t know what it was like over there, but here it was likely to get you a fair bit of abuse if you admitted something like that.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>JR:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, yeah. Not only just if you admitted it, also walking down the streets.\u00a0 That\u2019s the thing about Goth and punk being a certain kind of freaky culture, but it got out to very small towns. Goth was even freakier in a lot of places where what used to be termed \u2018Tetley Bitter man\u2019 would beat you up. Lads who hadn\u2019t really got on what was going on in the 70s would beat up anybody who didn\u2019t fit into the stereotype. So it was quite rough to make a stand, to look like something that looks out of the ordinary. It\u2019s easy enough to get away with it in Soho or London, but try doing it in Kingsley or Blackpool or wherever! You have to really want to do it to put up with that level of abuse.<\/p>\n<p><strong>What brought you to write this book?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>JR:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I started about eight to ten years ago, it\u2019s taken ages to finish. There are very good academic goth books, but I wanted to do something that tied it all together but in a very pop-cultural kind of way. Like John Savage did with England\u2019s Dreaming for punk in a sense. It gives it a sense of time and place and explanation, why it is there, what it actually was, but also in a way that you could understand. I wanted to write a book that people could relate to. To me, the ultimate victory would be if people read that book who are not actually that interested in Goth, but found it a very interesting story to read about. To do that, I had to expand the story out. It had to be from the fall of Rome through the Romantic poets, Lord Byron, Alastair Crowley and the whole thing.<\/p>\n<p>The basic premise was that every generation deals with its blues with whatever technology is at hand. So for Lord Byron, it would be like writing down a story with a quill or something. Whereas in the post-punk period, electric rock \u2018n\u2019 roll was central to our culture. So that was the vehicle to embrace the melancholy. Whereas nowadays, for a lot of people, it\u2019s TikTok or instagram, dressing up in sort of goth clothes and standing in a forest and no music at all. Music is not part of the story anymore. Or is, but not as much as it was. I find that fascinating. I think the feeling is always there. The embrace of melancholy is always there. Rising up. But different vehicles to do it in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>How easy was it to get people to talk to you, from the bands and so on?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>JR: Siouxsie Sioux isn\u2019t going to do an interview about Goth. She hates the term more than anybody. Steve Severin did one, the second in command of the band and he said, we don\u2019t really like the term \u2018goff\u2019, as in two fs. He said goff, but he liked the term gothic because he made him think of medieval cathedrals, Lord Byron, Edgar Allen Poe. If you turn it with a slightly different spelling as gothic, it puts you in the lineage of what I\u2019m talking about in the book, really. I\u2019m not dumping all the bands into a goth dustbin. I\u2019m embracing the way they are more gothic, and I\u2019m trying to get that lineage from Lord Byron to Nick Cave or Edgar Allen Poe to the Banshees. Also, I wanted to explain, as the title of the book gives it away, the art of darkness. There is an art to this, and I think a lot of these bands probably weren\u2019t serviced that well by the British media in the late 70s and early 80s. Bauhaus got terrible reviews, though John Peel really embraced them. I wanted people to understand that Bauhaus are one of the greatest art rock bands the UK has ever produced. Each song is quite astonishing if you step back and listen to it. Every single thing they did was different, but also very artful, very cleverly done. It wasn\u2019t just about pan-stick and making ghost noises. The mainstream media at that time seemed to have a problem with bands who dressed up a little bit. I grew up with glam rock, I was fine with people dressing up.<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"embed-youtube\"><iframe title=\"Bauhaus - She's In Parties\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/Qxqq5vahHKk?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-ratio=\"0.7503015681544029\" data-width=\"829\" data-height=\"622\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>Do you think there\u2019s a bit of a resurgence of goth at the minute?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>JR:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s always bubbling under the surface, but I think the Wednesday Addams thing really put it back into the mainstream. I think it gives it a very handy tag for mainstream media to do stuff on, they understand that people are talking about this now. When I started doing the book, there was not really any sign of a resurgence. There were no other books around. Obviously, there are academic books that have gone before, Mick Mercer\u2019s encyclopaedias, A-Z of goth which were excellent books.<\/p>\n<p>It was quite hard to shop it around at first because publishers didn\u2019t really understand that there was a market for it, they didn\u2019t see who was going to buy it, so I had to really persuade them.\u00a0 Other people seem to have done a version of the same idea!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Does the music still stand up to this day, do you think?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>JR: I think so, because I think anything that\u2019s got an artfulness to it always stands up. I think art goes beyond generations, goes beyond time, and that\u2019s the beauty of art. If you look at a Caravaggio painting, it doesn\u2019t look like it was painted in that century, but also it doesn\u2019t look dated because it\u2019s so incredible. There\u2019s so much in it. There\u2019s so much emotion, so much colour, so much technique that anybody is a human being will feel something like that at any point in history. I think that\u2019s the same with the music. I know that\u2019s a very pretentious thing to say about pop culture, but pop culture to me is one of the highest arts. The piece of pop culture can be incredibly simple, but also incredibly complex at the same time.<\/p>\n<p>A song like Bauhaus\u2019 Bela Lugosi\u2019s Dead is a very simple song to play. You could play it on the guitar and work it out in five minutes.\u00a0 But to come up with it, it\u2019s something else and the atmospheres it creates are really difficult to create and it takes a lot of skills to come up with that.\u00a0 I love the story of it, they wrote it in their first rehearsal and they recorded it four weeks later as a demo to take the record labels, and then it comes out as a single. What other band comes up with something that good after four weeks? Normally, after four weeks, you just about learn the drummer\u2019s name!<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"embed-youtube\"><iframe title=\"Bauhaus - Bela Lugosi's Dead (Original)\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/OKRJfIPiJGY?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-ratio=\"0.7503015681544029\" data-width=\"829\" data-height=\"622\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>What are your own personal goth favourites?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>JR: I love them all dearly, in completely different ways. We\u2019ve got to put a shout-out for the Banshees, obviously, the well-known stuff, but also the first album (The Scream) is a template. Kenny Morris\u2019 drumming is incredible. He lives in Ireland now. His tribal drumming was such an influence on the scene. Also John McKay\u2019s guitar, that shining sound which was before Keith Levene (Public Image). John was the first one to do that sound. Siouxsie\u2019s image as well, Bowie changed his image every year and Siouxsie changed every week. But every single look was really brilliant. There\u2019s never a bad picture of her. She always looked really iconic. And I look forward to seeing what she looks like now because I think she\u2019ll do the older version of herself in a really cool kind of way. It\u2019s quite intriguing, what is she now, 63? 64? She\u2019ll still look incredible, embracing her age. These people are too cool to do the plastic surgery trip. They are what they are, but they\u2019re still incredible.<\/p>\n<p>I think Adam Ant is really overlooked at the time. The first album (Dirk Wears White Sox) is a template record as well. It\u2019s a very dark record, all about S&amp;M, but also funny as well, a really dark sense of humour. What he looked like in that period with white face paints and the whole look, that fed into the scene. Kings of the Wild Frontiers is an amazing record, a gateway record. I think in a weird way, he bookends that first period, the beginning and the end of it, in a sense, every single band.<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"embed-youtube\"><iframe title=\"ADAM AND THE ANTS \u2013 Dirk Wears White Sox \u2013 1983 \u2013 Full album \u2013 Vinyl\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/bhteuc9MN1A?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-ratio=\"0.7503015681544029\" data-width=\"829\" data-height=\"622\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>The Cramps aren\u2019t a goth band at all but were dearly loved in goth clubs. You had no idea whether they were playing it for laughs or if they really were that weird. They were genuinely scary looking. I didn\u2019t realise for about two years that there was a sense of humour going on.\u00a0 You couldn\u2019t, there\u2019s no context to it. And the music was so bizarre. They are a psychedelic band whose frame of reference is backwards rockabilly but with loads of acid added to it. The first album (Songs The Lord Taught Us) is one of the great psychedelic records. It\u2019s not a paisley pattern psychedelic record. It\u2019s one that\u2019s framed with one or two chords, backwards rockabilly, but played in a post punk psychedelic kind of way. There\u2019s so much stuff crammed in there, it\u2019s really interesting. Every band in that scene has something. The Sisters of Mercy with a drum machine, bringing in that technology. Also, they embraced minimalism like New York No Wave, which is completely feted to this day. No Wave is a prime influence, no one ever says a bad word against it. I love it, it\u2019s great music. But the Sisters were kind of doing the same kind of minimalistic thing. Very minimal guitars, bass and a drum machine with his incredible vocals on top. Every single band was doing something that was mind-bogglingly imaginative, often without any frame of reference, just making it out of the blue.<\/p>\n<div class=\"jetpack-video-wrapper\">\n<div class=\"embed-youtube\"><iframe title=\"The Cramps - Songs The Lord Taught Us (Full Album)\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/O42X5AjLBso?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-ratio=\"0.7503015681544029\" data-width=\"829\" data-height=\"622\" data-mce-fragment=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>That\u2019s the thing about bands like Bauhaus. They came out of Northampton. At that time there was no scene in Northampton, they just formed with their mates and that was it. I love the way that a lot of goth culture was quite exotic in these kind of backward towns.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Do you think a sense of place was important around goth?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think the argument defines as, which was the first goth club, was it the Batcave (in London) or the Phono (in Leeds)? By timelines, it was the Phono, but the Batcave got on television more. You can understand people in Yorkshire getting a bit fed up with people saying that London came up with the idea. I think it\u2019s convergent evolution. These things can happen at the same time in different places. I don\u2019t think people in the north are waiting for the Batcave to hand them an instruction manual. But this is not running the Batcave down, because the Batcave was a great scene. It\u2019s different for the north. Each city in the north had its own different journey, coming out of punk.\u00a0 Liverpool with Echo and the Bunnymen and bands like that, it was like West Coast psychedelia mixed in with postpunk. While Manchester was Joy Division, stark, very sleek, modern lines, mind-blowing production like Martin Hannett, that sense of space we can hear across the whole goth scene.<\/p>\n<p>Rock music was sniffed at by everyone else and put down. Of course, Leeds, being from Yorkshire, totally embraced it. Classic Yorkshire thing: no one tells me what to like! They\u2019re also very modernistic as well. I don\u2019t think they were looking backwards in Leeds in that period. They embraced The Stooges and Suicide, where most other places didn\u2019t embrace those bands so much. They found something different in The Stooges. It wasn\u2019t because The Stooges were this wild band, it was because they did drones. They were into Hawkwind as well. This is all feeding into the Yorkshire scene. That was Andrew Eldritch\u2019s then girlfriend, Claire Shearsby, DJ-ing at the Phono, and other clubs playing their records. It turned all those people onto them. They were wearing paisley shirts and winkle pickers and growing their hair. It was a different scene. I find that quite fascinating as well, that each city had its own kind of journey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>The interview continues in Part 2.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/section>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Interview with John Robb \u2013 Part 1 by Killian Laher No More Workhorse interviewed John Robb, of the Membranes and the\u00a0Louderthanwar\u00a0website about his latest book,\u00a0The Art of Darkness \u2013 The History Of Goth Were you in fact a goth? John Robb:\u00a0Okay, well I\u2019m not a \u2018joiner\u2019. That\u2019s the thing for anybody who came out of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":6595,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[167],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6594","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-band"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"featured_image_urls":{"full":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"thumbnail":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-150x150.webp",150,150,true],"medium":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-300x180.webp",300,180,true],"medium_large":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"large":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"1536x1536":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"2048x2048":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"jnews-360x180":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-360x180.webp",360,180,true],"jnews-750x375":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-639x375.webp",639,375,true],"jnews-1140x570":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"jnews-120x86":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-120x86.webp",120,86,true],"jnews-350x250":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-350x250.webp",350,250,true],"jnews-750x536":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"jnews-1140x815":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"jnews-360x504":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-360x383.webp",360,383,true],"jnews-75x75":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-75x75.webp",75,75,true],"jnews-350x350":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339-350x350.webp",350,350,true],"jnews-featured-750":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false],"jnews-featured-1140":["https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/unnamed-11-e1673610725339.webp",639,383,false]},"author_info":{"display_name":"Newssoccer","author_link":"https:\/\/newssoccer.uk\/?author=1"},"category_info":"<a 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